Re: If you are going to repeal it...give people a reason to vote for it
| By User from Mission Viejo, CA - Nov 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am PST |
"REPERATION of UNFAIR TAXES" Proposition
by Chris the H.
I think you are on to something...
"give people a reason to vote for it"???
Money! The root of these current Wars. It can move mountains off of the biggest of Problems.
I had suggested to others that we put a repeal of Prop 8 on a Ballot with what I call a "REPERATION of UNFAIR TAXES" Proposition.
It would "correct" the unfair taxes collected from those who are not married, or cannot get married. It would repay taxes to Singles, Gays and Divorcees because they support, with their tax dollars, "Married" institutions that these groups of People (and maybe others) don't get any benefits from. I.E. tax breaks, schools, etc.
This was called by our founding fathers: No taxation without representation.
The Dollar amount could be figured later, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's $200 and there is no Proof needed to Prove Discrimination. (This could also serve as CA state Stimulus Plan in this bad economy. If the Feds can buy Votes, why not us? Remember when Bush campaigned in 2000 for the $50 rebate to each person if elected President?)
Some parts of It would be like the Jarvis Prop 13 thing... where it would be in effect for all times.
It would be a onetime "reparations" thing, with corrections to stop future "reparations" from being needed.
Among the "fixes" would be Repeal of Prop 8 and a Clause saying that the State Constitution cannot be changed by simple majority Vote after this Prop, but by Traditional Values as done with the US Constitution. (2/3rds Vote Passage)
I think People will vote for Money over Hate...
After all, "they" did vote for Lies over Reason in Prop 8.
Chris the H.
Post from Robert Cruickshank, Courage Campaign's Blog:
We've been here before
By Robert Cruickshank, Courage Campaign - Nov 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm PST
Also listed in: Courage Campaign Staff
Comments | Mail to a Friend
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tags: Prop 8, Proposition 8
Rate this Post:
(What is this?) The more I look at the passage of Prop 8 and the reaction to it - the outpouring of anger, the determination to not let this stand - the more I realize that we have been here before.
In 1963 the state legislature passed the Rumford Fair Housing Act, outlawing racial discrimination in the sale or rental of property. Housing segregation was one of the main targets of the Civil Rights Movement and the Rumford Act was a major victory.
But it also provoked a conservative reaction. In 1964 the California Real Estate Association put Proposition 14 on the ballot, a constitutional amendment repealing the open housing law. A former actor named Ronald Reagan launched his political career serving as the spokesman for the campaign, especially in TV ads. Despite a major mobilization against Prop 14 - leading to, among other things, the Berkeley Free Speech Movement - Prop 14 passed by a 2-1 margin in November 1964.
It was a bitter blow to the California civil rights movement. The anger it provoked was so intense it led to the Watts Riots the following summer. But the main reaction among the California civil rights movement was to organize. By 1970 activists had forced the Democratic Party in CA and in DC to embrace open housing and enshrined it in law as soon as Prop 14 was overturned by the US Supreme Court.
Many Californians are asking us "what now?" The protests we have seen are the beginnings of a new civil rights movement - the *marriage equality movement* - but we need a grassroots movement to make this movement grow and succeed. And to do that we need a goal. A court case doesn't sustain activist energies - something the civil rights Movement, which was organized long before /Brown v. Board/ or /Reitman v. Mulkey/ and achieved its main successes by mounting the most effective and important grassroots movement in our history, understood quite well.
The goal, then, ought to be a repeal of Prop 8. We can and must do the groundwork, field organizing, and outreach to block by block reverse this defeat and show Californians the importance of restoring equal rights - exactly as the civil rights movement did 40 years ago.
The birth of a new Marriage Equality Movement -- the civil rights movement of the 21st Century -- is unfolding before our eyes.
Movements are visceral and popular, often borne of outrage and anger. What we are witnessing on the streets and online is a community of people who have come together to say: "These are our lives. This is our time. This is unacceptable." Organized from the bottom-up by thousands of ordinary people in the last 48 hours, this people-powered phenomenon is exponentially growing by the minute, online and offline.
This is our moment to stand strong together -- gay and straight -- and say that we refuse to accept a California where discrimination is enshrined in our state constitution. Please show your support by pledging to support our campaign to repeal Prop 8 and restore marriage equality to California.
Reader Comments Write a Comment on this Post Comments RSS
Equality now Reply
By User from Paradise, CA Nov 7th 2008 at 5:26 pm PST (Updated Nov 7th 2008 at 5:26 pm PST)
It is time that we demand that all Marriage licences be suspended in California. Equal means equal. If Marriage licences cannot be issued to same-sex couples, then they also cannot be issued to opposite sex couples. Domestic partnerships for everyone, would mean equality, and would take out the word "Marriage" that they wish to withhold.
Re: Equality now Reply
By Steve Nov 7th 2008 at 7:18 pm PST (Updated Nov 7th 2008 at 7:18 pm PST)
How about we take a vote on it?
If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Los Angeles, CA Nov 8th 2008 at 5:15 am PST (Updated Nov 8th 2008 at 5:15 am PST)
Robert, first I want to say that your article is informative and well researched for prop 14, however what I'd have to say is that if California is to put the proposition back on the ballet there has to be some sort of innocentive for people to vote for it that wouldn't typically vote in favor of same sex marriage. We all know that California is hurting for money and Arnold is planning on raising sales tax to get there... why not propose a solution that calls for an extra tax be placed on same sex marriage. This tax would go into the state's general fund and take some of the burden off of the taxpayer. This would rally the pocketbook voters, such as myself, to actually vote for the proposition. Then in another 4-5 years repeal the tax with another proposition.
Outside of that, I don't see same sex marriage in California... the voters have voted on this now at least twice and each time it has favored not allowing same sex marriage.
Re: If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Fresno, CA Today at 2:27 am PST (Updated Today at 2:27 am PST)
So we should give same-sex couples marriage rights but they'll have to pay more than other couples for it? Doesn't sound like marriage equality to me.
In other news the margin in 2008 was 4%. The margin in 2000 was 28% or so. That's a lot of progress in eight years, so I disagree that same-sex marriage via referendum is impossible.
I do agree however that a convincing argument to get people to vote for marriage equality is needed. I just think it should focus more on real couples and families, the struggles they've faced without marriage equality and how their lives would improve with it. It's easy to vote against something if you think they're going to invade your child's school, it's much harder to vote against real people with real families facing real problems. Something that was noticeably lacking from the No on 8 campaign's message.
Re: If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Mission Viejo, CA Today at 8:42 am PST (Updated Today at 8:42 am PST)
by Chris the H.
I think you are on to something...
"give people a reason to vote for it"???
Money! The root of these current Wars. It can move mountains off of the biggest of Problems.
I had suggested to others that we put a repeal of Prop 8 on a Ballot with what I call a "REPERATION of UNFAIR TAXES" Proposition.
It would "correct" the unfair taxes collected from those who are not married, or cannot get married. It would repay taxes to Singles, Gays and Divorcees because they support, with their tax dollars, "Married" institutions that these groups of People (and maybe others) don't get any benefits from. I.E. tax breaks, schools, etc.
This was called by our founding fathers: No taxation without representation.
The Dollar amount could be figured later, but for the sake of argument, let's say it's $200 and there is no Proof needed to Prove Discrimination. (This could also serve as CA state Stimulus Plan in this bad economy. If the Feds can buy Votes, why not us? Remember when Bush campaigned in 2000 for the $50 rebate to each person if elected President?)
Some parts of It would be like the Jarvis Prop 13 thing... where it would be in effect for all times.
It would be a onetime "reparations" thing, with corrections to stop future "reparations" from being needed.
Among the "fixes" would be Repeal of Prop 8 and a Clause saying that the State Constitution cannot be changed by simple majority Vote after this Prop, but by Traditional Values as done with the US Constitution. (2/3rds Vote Passage)
I think People will vote for Money over Hate...
After all, "they" did vote for Lies over Reason in Prop 8.
Chris the H.
Post from Robert Cruickshank, Courage Campaign's Blog:
We've been here before
By Robert Cruickshank, Courage Campaign - Nov 7th, 2008 at 12:05 pm PST
Also listed in: Courage Campaign Staff
Comments | Mail to a Friend
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tags: Prop 8, Proposition 8
Rate this Post:
(What is this?) The more I look at the passage of Prop 8 and the reaction to it - the outpouring of anger, the determination to not let this stand - the more I realize that we have been here before.
In 1963 the state legislature passed the Rumford Fair Housing Act, outlawing racial discrimination in the sale or rental of property. Housing segregation was one of the main targets of the Civil Rights Movement and the Rumford Act was a major victory.
But it also provoked a conservative reaction. In 1964 the California Real Estate Association put Proposition 14 on the ballot, a constitutional amendment repealing the open housing law. A former actor named Ronald Reagan launched his political career serving as the spokesman for the campaign, especially in TV ads. Despite a major mobilization against Prop 14 - leading to, among other things, the Berkeley Free Speech Movement - Prop 14 passed by a 2-1 margin in November 1964.
It was a bitter blow to the California civil rights movement. The anger it provoked was so intense it led to the Watts Riots the following summer. But the main reaction among the California civil rights movement was to organize. By 1970 activists had forced the Democratic Party in CA and in DC to embrace open housing and enshrined it in law as soon as Prop 14 was overturned by the US Supreme Court.
Many Californians are asking us "what now?" The protests we have seen are the beginnings of a new civil rights movement - the *marriage equality movement* - but we need a grassroots movement to make this movement grow and succeed. And to do that we need a goal. A court case doesn't sustain activist energies - something the civil rights Movement, which was organized long before /Brown v. Board/ or /Reitman v. Mulkey/ and achieved its main successes by mounting the most effective and important grassroots movement in our history, understood quite well.
The goal, then, ought to be a repeal of Prop 8. We can and must do the groundwork, field organizing, and outreach to block by block reverse this defeat and show Californians the importance of restoring equal rights - exactly as the civil rights movement did 40 years ago.
The birth of a new Marriage Equality Movement -- the civil rights movement of the 21st Century -- is unfolding before our eyes.
Movements are visceral and popular, often borne of outrage and anger. What we are witnessing on the streets and online is a community of people who have come together to say: "These are our lives. This is our time. This is unacceptable." Organized from the bottom-up by thousands of ordinary people in the last 48 hours, this people-powered phenomenon is exponentially growing by the minute, online and offline.
This is our moment to stand strong together -- gay and straight -- and say that we refuse to accept a California where discrimination is enshrined in our state constitution. Please show your support by pledging to support our campaign to repeal Prop 8 and restore marriage equality to California.
Reader Comments Write a Comment on this Post Comments RSS
Equality now Reply
By User from Paradise, CA Nov 7th 2008 at 5:26 pm PST (Updated Nov 7th 2008 at 5:26 pm PST)
It is time that we demand that all Marriage licences be suspended in California. Equal means equal. If Marriage licences cannot be issued to same-sex couples, then they also cannot be issued to opposite sex couples. Domestic partnerships for everyone, would mean equality, and would take out the word "Marriage" that they wish to withhold.
Re: Equality now Reply
By Steve Nov 7th 2008 at 7:18 pm PST (Updated Nov 7th 2008 at 7:18 pm PST)
How about we take a vote on it?
If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Los Angeles, CA Nov 8th 2008 at 5:15 am PST (Updated Nov 8th 2008 at 5:15 am PST)
Robert, first I want to say that your article is informative and well researched for prop 14, however what I'd have to say is that if California is to put the proposition back on the ballet there has to be some sort of innocentive for people to vote for it that wouldn't typically vote in favor of same sex marriage. We all know that California is hurting for money and Arnold is planning on raising sales tax to get there... why not propose a solution that calls for an extra tax be placed on same sex marriage. This tax would go into the state's general fund and take some of the burden off of the taxpayer. This would rally the pocketbook voters, such as myself, to actually vote for the proposition. Then in another 4-5 years repeal the tax with another proposition.
Outside of that, I don't see same sex marriage in California... the voters have voted on this now at least twice and each time it has favored not allowing same sex marriage.
Re: If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Fresno, CA Today at 2:27 am PST (Updated Today at 2:27 am PST)
So we should give same-sex couples marriage rights but they'll have to pay more than other couples for it? Doesn't sound like marriage equality to me.
In other news the margin in 2008 was 4%. The margin in 2000 was 28% or so. That's a lot of progress in eight years, so I disagree that same-sex marriage via referendum is impossible.
I do agree however that a convincing argument to get people to vote for marriage equality is needed. I just think it should focus more on real couples and families, the struggles they've faced without marriage equality and how their lives would improve with it. It's easy to vote against something if you think they're going to invade your child's school, it's much harder to vote against real people with real families facing real problems. Something that was noticeably lacking from the No on 8 campaign's message.
Re: If you are going to repeal it... give people a reason to vote for it Reply
By User from Mission Viejo, CA Today at 8:42 am PST (Updated Today at 8:42 am PST)
Comments are closed for this post.